Does fiber count as Carbs? What are safe carbs and when to eat them

Will high fiber plant foods help you burn more body fat??

My friend has embarked on a low carbs, low kcal diet for fat loss.  He found an article online that suggest that we should subtract the fiber content from the total carbs content since some fibers can't be digested, therefore does not release calories.... or the hypothesis that it takes the body more energy to digest them, therefore, eating fiber burns more calories. 

here's the article.
http://www.diabeteshealth.com/read/1999/11/01/1700/do-i-subtract-fiber-from-carbohydrates/

The notion that fiber doesn't count as carbs is false.  Almost anything edible we put in our mouth that comes out the other end looking different releases some kinda energy/calories for the body.

Here's my reply to him (with more elaboration)...

high fiber food is great for hunger and sugar/insulin control.  I'd mentioned that any vegetables (other than the starchy ones like corn/beans/carrots/potatoes) shouldn't be counted as carbs on your diet. 

However, it still gives you energy. it's not true that diabetics or the obese should just forget about calories from veggies/high fiber food.  (the best scenario for them is to eat a hypocaloric diet high in fat, moderate protein, and low to zero carbs diet.) 

The reason I recommend you eat veggies at your liberty because i know how inconvenient a complete zero or very low carbs diet can be (in terms of meal texture/variety preparation) and it's probably hard to eat too much of veggies to offset the kcal deficit of the diet overall.  (Unless you're a 5 foot , 120 lb, overweight female who only needs around 700-800kcal a day to meet your essential needs, then eating too much veggie may offset your low kcal/fat loss diet.)

Here's a basic breakdown on fiber that answers your question.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/fiber-its-natures-broom.html

"Newsflash: Fiber Provides Calories to Humans - Lyle McDonald

But there is another effect of fiber on energy balance that often goes unappreciated.  Backing up, it’s often stated that fiber provides no calories to the body since humans lack the enzymes necessary to digest it.  This has often been taken even further to claim that high-fiber vegetables are ‘negative calorie foods’, that is they take more calories to digest than they provide (assumed to be zero).

Here’s the thing: it’s not true.  Not entirely anyhow.

Above I discussed the issue of fermentation of some types of fiber to short-chain fatty acids which are then reabsorbed by the body.  Well, those fatty acids provide calories to the body.  While there is still some debate in the area, researchers have assigned a caloric value to fiber of 1.5-2 cal/gram (depending on the specific type).

Admittedly this is an average and will depend on the specifics of the diet and the type of fiber but, simply, the idea that fiber provides no calories to the body is not true. While the caloric value of fiber is still lower than starchy carbohydrates (4 cal/g), it is not zero"

A deeper look at fiber and carbs - PaNu, Kurt Harris

http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2011/2/5/no-such-thing-as-a-macronutrient-part-ii-carbohydrates-revis.html

"5) The frequently observed and logical behavior of modern hunter-gatherers, horticulturalists, primitive agriculturalists and wild animals suggests that if a plant is favored or sought, it ought to be the one that supplies the most energy density - fuel. The ONE thing that plants can do for us that animals can't is to relieve us of the burden of diverting amino acids from their critical structural uses to their inefficient conversion into mere fuel.

6) Plants consumed should therefore provide as much fuel as possible with exposure to as few antinutrients as possible. They should be close to the kinds of plants we evolved eating - as free of GMO modifications and artificial industrial processing as reasonably achievable.

So the top of the plant hierarchy will be:

Starchy Plant Organs - tubers and root vegetables. Sweet potatoes, cassava, root vegetables, white potatoes, etc.

Then, in descending order:

Green Vegetables - The "Atkins type" vegetables - leafy greens, etc.

Non-gluten Grains - white rice, corn - acceptable starch sources when not made a staple food

Legumes

Fruits

Gluten Grains

I think these kind of food categories, as well as the the more "nutritionist" categories preceding them, would be far more meaningful variables in a food frequency questionnaire or dietary trial than categories like "percentage of carbohydrate" where fructose and potato starch are lumped together, or "servings of fruits and vegetables" as if green beans and watermelon were remotely the same in dietary value."

Since fuel is not your problem (plenty around your belly), you're eliminating the plants that "fuels" you; the starchy plant organs - (potato/fruits/carrots/corn/grain).  At the same time, eliminating the anti-nutrient plants (in large amounts and in chronic conditions) that take away rich nutrient sources in the body such as the grain/wheat/legumes.

 So in the context of a fat loss diet, this leaves you the leafy greens.  They're just near-empty calories that provide you fullness/texture to the meal and balance acidity from all the meat.   High fiber carbs/leafy greens are not essential to human but we can tolerate them pretty nicely. 

So to answer your question.  No, if you're OCD about counting calories, then you should count fibers as part of your carbs.

OR you can just skip the starchy veggies and eliminate all anti-nutrient carbs, and enjoy the little carbs sources you're allow to have in your low carb, low calories diet while you're losing weight.   Your caloric restrictive diet may be inflexibility from time to time, so why not enjoy the awesome modern food products like bbq sauce, margaritas, Dr. pepper, or anything else that fixes your short-term sugar cravings.

Once you reach your goal and has plenty (caloric) flexiblity to eat more, then incorporate other carbs sources that you like.

update:  feb 15, 2011
Here some other starchy carbs not mentioned above:
Taro, white rice, or yam, potatoes, taro, tapioca, sago
http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fperfecthealthdiet.com%2F%3Fs%3DQuinoa&h=3b471

Also, once you've reached your ideal weight/optimal health condition, keep carbs under 400kcal/100g.  That's about how much dietary glucose the body need without going hypoglycemic (in some ppl).  If you're close to sedentary, you can do less and optimally post workout if you train.

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